RE: After dedicating 5.5 years to Hive/Steem, I've been informed by KING ACIDYO that I added no value
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That's all nice said and stuff but you realize that if you are what you say in this comment you're the absolute opposite of OP, he's the quickest to turn against the platform in the face of a few downvotes I've ever witnessed. I honestly wonder how gullible some of you are, not you directly but many of you. Or you just don't care cause you're in the same circle of being fed the same votes from OP through various accounts. Oh the freedom Hive gives people, for better or worse.
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Why support this medium at all if your posts can just be downvoted to nothingness? I thought this place was decentralized from authority and there was no censorship but it doesn't appear that way.
Is there no honest place to communicate anymore? How will our species ever find our way if we can't talk to each other?
This is identical to gov overreach telling others what's valuable and what's not. Damn, so disappointed.
It's not censorship. Post all you want. You're just not entitled to get paid for it if stakeholders vote not to pay you.
Sounds like you're describing a slave / master relationship ... like it's okay or something.
Hardly. It's rewards you may get or may not get. There's no coercion involved whatsoever.
It's tyranny whatever you want to call it. This platform should change its profile in order to be completely honest.
And be sure to include the fact that what your content is worth will be decided by a centralized authority, not by the market,
Why belong to anything that puts you at the mercy of some insane authority? @kennyskitchen , @tlavagabond and god knows who else has added no value as decided by some tyrannical authority is ludicrous. Blunt truth.
Sure, you can say whatever you want but you won't get paid if it doesn't meet with the central authorities approval.
Need any help with that new profile? I could post it on youtube for you. Just trying to help.
I have an idea. Just admit "you" were wrong and change things around in the interest of good will and freedom. Naw, tyrants never have good will.
The more "you" try to sell it, the more irritated it makes me.
And to be fair here as well, markets determine value through both selling and buying, which are the equivalent of up or downvotes here. To be a fair market both the +/- need to exist.
Do they need to exist as is? No, I'm sure there's a better way and these posts, since they address this specific issue should hopefully motivate some ideas. Those ideas can then become blogs, helping to keep the topic front and center and even gain popularity leading to change.
to be fair? Fair is not in this equation. It's just another "market" controlled by a few dishonest individuals.. you know, that thing we were trying to escape in coming here.
Life in general isn't fair.
Much of the unfairness in life is directly generated by humans and that is the case here. Few things really piss me off but at the top of the list is cruelty / unkindness. That always trips my trigger like nothing else can.
Humans that can actually justify in their own twisted minds being unkind are what we should be trying to evolve from. We, humans, can make things better, more fair, if you will, for everyone.
AND .. we can do that today, in a heartbeat, with a change of heart, an enlightened soul, letting kindness and love lead. I truly hope those guilty parties will take the time to consider how they can do the right thing and change the course because as it stands right now, they risk destroying this platform.
They need to apologize and set things right with critical thinking and good will. Are they "big" enough to do that. Do they have a conscience sufficiently developed that will allow them to just .. tell the truth. Too much to ask?
hope not but time will tell
I myself don't feel we need to be more kind. On the contrary, we need to thicken our skins. Nature is inherently unfair, so it's not just humans who create inequity.
The strongest survive and lightening does strike twice. If things only work in the affirmative, then balance will be lost and things will only become more unfair. As a matter of fact, Hive will simply be a Socialist paradise(?) with a Chinese style social credit score.
I'll say it again as well, I don't think Hive works as it should nor can it reach the goal of decentralization as is. Kenny and a few others dealing with this issue could have presented the issue in a more constructive way. Addressing a problem and trying to start a conversation does not include the threat of powering down, voicing the intent to leave nor shitting on the place that has treated him well for years.
See, it has only become an issue once the earnings weren't there? No, it's been an issue since day one, but no one addresses it until they become a victim. This in my eyes is a form of hypocrisy.
That being said, I've been here since 2016, yet look at my rep and wallet. I'm not looking for a digital representation of the current systems. I've worked hard to be able to live outside the system irl.
For this reason I haven't put a lot of time into Hive. I've been searching this whole time for something better and I've voiced my issue with the oligarchy it creates since 2018. It(a more decentralized platform) simply doesn't exist. Hive is the most decentralized environment out there. So, the most efficient way to build a better system is to either develop your own fork or try to change the current system for the better.
That's what we should be trying to do, help Hive evolve towards decentralization, rather than just throwing it on the ground and stomping on it when it pisses us off.
"I myself don't feel we need to be more kind."
full stop... I'll try to read the rest of your post later after I get over my shock. Do you really believe that? We're at opposite ends of that rainbow.
... think I'll watch a couple episodes of "Ancient Aliens" and smoke a doob
are you still trying to defend tyranny??? that's never going to fly in my world
just tell me the justification for destroying someone's work, specifically .. I can't imagine an explanation that doesn't sound messed up.. surprise me.
later
It's not destroyed = fact?
If you read the rest you'd see there's multiple points and even agreement with you. If you refuse to read dissent cuz your 180° from it, then anything you produce is in question.
Note: I've had an account decimated unfairly. It is what it is... take your lumps and move on.
Also, from your first comment til your last that I've read, I haven't seen much 'kindness' in any of them.
You're defending tyranny and that's annoying. I apologize for coming across that way but it irritates me to hear tyranny defended over and over. To the best of my ability, I'm only saying blunt truth but I know that can also sound harsh. Not meant that way.
Give me something logical to justify stealing someone's money as it specifically applies in this case or we just shouldn't talk anymore because I will view it as defending tyranny.
I know we agree on some things but I can't accept authoritarian control, nor any words to justify it as it's goes 100% against my grain, my being. That's just me, understood. I have a right to my opinion as well as the next guy.
I wish you all good things, nothing but.
So, be specific or go in peace, otherwise it's all dust in the wind.
We are. Scrolling up through the comments again I noted several people reacting in shock at how centralization of the stake works. Lots of folks are trying to wrap their head around how it works, and some folks with vested interests that well understand how it works are trying to obfuscate it, to keep playing the fish on the line.
I've made the best pitch I know how, but when folks are trying to obfuscate and milk rather than act in good faith, no matter how well you make your pitch it won't produce beneficial results.
Some folks just don't have good faith. When those folks also have power, and oddly common circumstance, Hive doesn't get increasingly decentralized, things don't get better, and censorship increases instead of decreases.
Suppression of speech isn't eradication of it, yet. So, given the options Hive remains less censored than Twatter or the rest of 'em. It's just useful to not care about money in order to use it if the censors don't want you to.
So, when one stakeholder pays for a post with an upvote (they way y'all have been describing this - stakeholders PAYING for the content rewards), and another stakeholder comes along and deletes those rewards (for author & curator), how are they not stealing funds - from the stakeholder at least, if not the author?
Because the first stakeholder does not "pay" a post, they vote for rewards. The votes (both for and against rewards) are added up AT THE END, and then rewards, if any, are paid.
If someone wants to "pay" a post, we have a transfer function, and I think some UIs have a tip function too. That's paying. Voting is voting.
Ah. I just wanted to clarify this again because I've seen the phrase "stakeholders pay for rewards" thrown around multiple times.
They (we) pay for rewards collectively, not individually. We vote individually.
They're Gaslighting...
Where did Their "STAKE" come from in the first place?
Flags are censorship, and that is why they exist per the White Paper. You and others simply refuse to use the accepted definition of censorship, as if that actually matters.
It doesn't, because we live in reality, and flagging content suppresses it, which is why you do it. You do so predatorily, profiting from deprecating Hive and it's primary value of free speech.
Economic stress is a substantial source of psychological stress, and psychological stress is the leading indicator of life expectancy. It is false to claim that manipulating Hive's economy is not coercive.
https://odysee.com/@lancewdetrick:b/IA---Denis-Rancourt-on-there-being-no-evidence-of-a-pandemic---Jerm-Warfare:2
Your lack of philanthropy will be your undoing. It is the very wealth you have accumulated that deprives you of your ability to adapt and sustain the civil society on which you are utterly dependent, and current geopolitical conditions strongly indicate that the time that inability will become of existential import is either presently, or soon.
How will you feel when your tokens evaporate before your eyes, and you realize that if you had strengthened the community instead you'd have goodwill to depend on instead of your worthless stacks of tokens?
I know how desperation feels, because I experienced it when Citi stole my property. Your solvency depends on the UN continuing to allow Hive and exchanges to be resolved by DNS, and the UN has begun taking sites down it does not want online.
I suspect this is goodbye, because I don't think Hive and cryptocurrency exchanges will long survive the introduction of CBDCs, and that has already begun.
Good bye @smooth.
"Flags" don't exist in the white paper. Elewhere this thread I linked to an archive of the early steemit web site that didn't have "flags", it had upvote and downvote. Go look.
We all presumably do what we think is best for our investment, even if we happen not to agree on what that happens to be. For sure I'm not guaranteed to be taking the right approach, even though I think I am and you don't. And even so, many blockchains have failed and will fail, so I know there is a significant chance my stake in Hive declines in value or becomes worthless. And further you are not wrong that decentralized blockchains may collapse altogether (in value even if not operationally). Not what I would like to see of course, but it goes with the territory.
Pedantry regarding voting is without merit.
Free speech was the specific use case Hive was intended to reward financially, and departing from that has continually degraded the platform and community ever since. Proposing that purpose now be abandoned altogether is tantamount to euthanizing an athlete after amputating their legs because they can't run the mile competitively anymore.
Never more than now has free speech been more valuable, or necessary to our very lives and humanity, and consideration of value beyond mere financial considerations has never been more potential of immense profit to them that are capable of it.
Your wallet will have no value to you, regardless of the financial worth of the tokens in it, if censorship silences forthright speech and malicious lies are all society is availed during a global crisis of governance specifically bent on duplicity and covert genocide. You can't take it with you into a mass grave.
You, and all on Hive and alive, deserve better than such a fate, and it is now, and has always been, my position that free speech is essential to our survival, while mere money is but a convenience while we yet live.
I urge you to act to protect Hive's original remit and profit not only yourself thereby, but the community that will thereafter be able to increase and multiply that goodwill and fortune into treasure beyond the dreams of Midas.
Troubles are upon us, and to prevail will take extraordinary acts by ordinary people, but the decentralization and independent means that will follow our victory over the totalitarian tyranny oligarchs seek to implement over us all will usher in a golden age unimaginable to us now.
Seek the greater reward for your investment.
And it does, but not everything gets rewards.
No one said everything should. What a crappy straw man.
The issue you're dancing around is despite quality work, massive engagement, and some of the most diligent promotion of the platform that has ever been undertaken, @kennyskitchen is getting flagged because of differences of opinion.
You will deny it's censorship to suppress speech, but rational people will accept the longstanding ubiquitously accepted official definition of censorship anyway.
Dozens of quality creators marketing Hive to the wider world have been driven from the platform by this mechanism that I can personally recall, and no fewer than thousands just weren't willing to even start after seeing this kinda shit.
Free speech is far more valuable than whatever rewards you milk by censoring creators you disagree with politically. Censorship is bad for business, and worse for society. Even though you may not agree with it now, you might later. A lot of folks are having epiphanies of late, now that Jacinda Ardern has stated she will never stop jabbing her subjects, ever, Israel just announced 7 more boosters are going to be mandated, and even the enemedia are admitting the jabs are causing massive numbers of heart attacks and cardiovascular injuries.
The 'conspiracy theories' you don't censor just might turn out to be timely warnings that save your life soon. I give it two more weeks (/s).
You're not benefiting the platform, the community, or promoting quality content, despite your continued misdirection. Folks know that, even if they're unable to state it succinctly.
You're personally profiting financially from censorship, devaluing Hive by doing so, and claiming otherwise. It's disingenuous, counterproductive, and a huge waste of time, so you must really need the water muddy to keep rollin' deep.
Honestly, your life is far more valuable than your wallet. When you quit censoring people like @kennyskitchen, a life you save might be your own. You are ill advised to profit by censoring him when he's providing you that valuable service of cutting through bullshit being promulgated by lying genocidal war criminals to enable you and everyone else to defend themselves from existential harm.
You should be upvoting him instead.
Differences of opinion over what should be rewarded, yes. That's exactly what downvotes are for.
Since our speech here on Hive is the source of rewards, and everyone needs must express an opinion to speak, what you are claiming is that censoring opinions you do not agree with is what flags are for, and that is utterly contrary to any conception of rational debate, discussion, or discovery, and free speech itself.
Dial it back, or simply slap an armband on and demand plebs march in goosestep to your personal notions of what is acceptable to believe.
It is not the opinion regarding an issue that determines one's right to speak it, but how that opinion is expressed. Is it well researched? Is it well written? Is it spammed in every blog in comments? Is it used to trick people into parting with their stake? A preference for the color red is not an acceptable reason to flag, while expressing that opinion in various ways can be.
I may choose to communicate my preference for the color red by using a knife to turn people red with their own blood, and that is not a mode of expression any just legal theory would say I have a right to undertake, regardless of my opinion of the color. There are reasonable limits on our right to expression, and flagging well researched and written posts to zero exceeds those reasonable limits, regardless of the opinions involved.
In fact, so censoring certain speech might as well be stabbing people to death, because security and safety signals are absolutely dependent on free speech to promulgate. Free speech is of existential import. People die of the lack of it far more than of the lack of money, IMHO.
The worse censorship grows elsewhere, the less Hive should be censored, and the more valuable censorship resistance becomes.
Excuse me? Except for posts involving downvote drama and other insider nonsense that has no or negative marketing value (but still perfectly legitimate to debate, just don't expect to be paid for it), I only ever downvote moderately, such that there is still a very significant reward. If you think that getting a payout of, for example, $100 instead of $120 for something that in most cases couldn't earn a penny anywhere else is censorship, I don't know what to tell you. I can't speak for others' downvoting, take it up with them.
The definition of censorship != "deleted", it actually = suppression.
https://www.aclu.org/other/what-censorship
I'm not sure how after being here all these years you didn't know that.
Rewards are not imposing beliefs. They're a reward. You're entitled to submit a candidate to get rewards, and may get some, but you aren't entitled to them, and not getting them or getting less isn't "imposing" nor "censorship".
If you don't agree with the terminology, fine, but you're still not going to be entitled to an "uncensored" flow of whatever rewards you want.
The concept of a "reward" needs to be reexamined. Rewards aren't given and then taken away in real life that I've heard of, so the naming nomenclature for what is called "reward" is the wrong word to begin with.
An upvote isn't a reward, it's someone assigning someone else system resources(though why that is done at all still doesn't make sense either). Taking away that assignment of resources via downvoting is taking away someone's potential for earning that system resource. Whether or not it is built into the protocol isn't relevant.
The definition of censorship I provided above.
The definition of Curation is to put on display, to discern and create a list/public work that is on display, or to prominently put on display for others to see. Downvoting removes that to a certain %, so it is the opposite of curating and that means downvoting is suppressing something(censorship).
I'm disagreeing with the incorrect use of terminology that is being used across Hive, I am using historical definitions. Hive has censorship built into the protocol and it's called downvoting, to the degree that happens depends on if a post is lessened somewhat, a lot, a little, or zeroed out. For some reason people equate censorship = deleted, and that's just simply not the case.
Nor here either. Until payout, you haven't received the rewards. You can't spend them or transfer them or do anything else with them because you haven't received them yet.
Part of the issue seems to be that the UI displays an ESTIMATE of what you might receive, which is subject to change for various reasons (upvotes, downvotes, exchange rate, size of the reward pool, and possibly others I'm forgetting). But it is just an estimate. Upvotes don't "give" and downvotes don't "take away". The payment is made at the end, after all the votes are in.
Here's the defintion I get from google:
"the action or process of selecting, organizing, and looking after the items in a collection or exhibition"
That's what we're doing with voting. Selecting and organizing the items that will get payouts (looking after isn't applicable). We vote for seven days, during which stakeholders get to collaborate via the voting process to select and organize the pending payouts. Estimated payouts move up and down, and, at the end, the votes are added up, and only THEN is the payout, if any, made.
Sure, but i've never heard of such a thing in real life where a guy who has 1,000 USD in his wallet curates a selection of items/books and puts them on public display somewhere where there's lots of people, and a millionaire walks by and cancels the display. Then the millionaire says "have more money in your wallet if you want to have your display here".
That entire interaction and system is nonsensical.
This is real life. Everything is real life unless you're imagining it or dreaming it.
Is Hive different from many other systems? Yes! Differentiation is important. Is everything about Hive great or perfect? Certainly not. We do the best we can with what we have and also work to improve it.
In any case, you can think of it as somewhat like a business where the shareholders vote on how the business is run (usually indirectly, by hiring a board or manager, but on some occasions directly). Those with a larger share of the business have more votes. That's not completely new, but applying it to a dynamic content rewarding environment is new (or at least was new when Steem invented it)
The money isn't in your wallet then taken away. It's in limbo fluctuating as the market corrects to decide the value. Think if this period as a secondary market. Round and round it goes, where it stops nobody knows.
I don't agree that one person should be able to wipe out what 100 others users thought was quality, but it's a tricky issue to tackle. We must have a balance to ensure free speech. What's a more balanced system? Certainly not one without downvotes.
Above I've mentioned one improvement to better decentralize Hive. Unfortunately it doesn't address this particular one. I'd say this one should be dealt with one on one between the parties involved.
I bet with the right wording, one side can bring the other to the table. It takes the defeated side to be more humble though. I don't think that affects anyone's free speech, just ego...
To be fair, 4 stakeholders isn't the will of Hive..
There are a lot more than 4 stakeholders.
Exactly!
Again, I'm not turning against this platform, I'm just exhausted trying to win it back from authoritarian censors, and tired of not calling it out as loudly as I can (because I was worried about getting zero-repped out by y'all - but I'm not anymore)
As I've also made clear dozens of times (from the very first posts I've made about downvoting until now), yet you refuse to understand, this is about the broad-sweeping problem of centralized control on Hive, by a small handful of people, who like to censor content that causes them cognitive dissonance, and people they don't like.
I am just what I am. My wallet is public and I have never once sold tokens for fiat.
@kennyskitchen has undertaken to promote this community and has built his following by that sweat and effort. Now you and others seek the HP he has accumulated thereby and use flags to prevent that HP from being useful to him. You continue to purge the voices you disagree with for fun and profit, deprecating Hive all the way to the bank. You are actually selling free speech for tokens by that mechanism, and it is free speech that is Hive's source of value, not it's token.
I do not accede to your characterization of your implementation of censorship as 'just a few downvotes'. I have seen dozens of high quality content creators driven from the platform by you and the censorship of free speech you and your ilk undertake.
Thousands of Christians have just been removed from Twatter. Gab is absorbing them. Why isn't Hive?
Because you make Hive no better than Twatter.
Had you and other oligarchs on Hive actually decentralized HP, rather than centralize that power in your wallets, Ned could have never destroyed Steem, and it could have actually become able to prevent being turned off by the UN, as is coming soon.
You didn't, and you will be judged as you have judged others.
Thank you for the courtesy of your reply, but unless you're going to substantively address the underlying problem of centralization of HP, please just ignore me instead. We'll both be happier, and be able to do things that actually matter with the time saved.