Spread the wealth.
Our current system is all fucked up.
This wouldn't be the popular opinion of our government but it's a different story on the ground floor.
I live in a reasonably fair country where it is still possible to get a solid education and to support a good lifestyle from your hard work.
It is a hard thing to achieve but its possible. We have a good public education system and a reasonable if inefficient public health system. It's not the worst in the world.
Unfortunately other people are not entitled to such luxuries in other countries.
We have a slight wealth gap between medium earning people in this country. It would be hard to tell the difference between the ones who have a ten thousand in the bank to the ones who have a million.
That's the way it should be.
We are all entitled to a good standard of living if we are willing to work for it.
The main problems lie at the opposite ends of the scale. Gig business and social welfare. This is where you can see true imbalance and a different attitude. Both of these groups have one thing in common. Neither want to pay their fair share. ( This is the majority and not in all cases.)
The very rich spend lots of money figuring out how to save the rest of their money from taxes and expenses. The poor want everything handed to them and expect not to give anything in return.
Unfortunately the system is set up in such a way as to make this all very possible and in most cases profitable for these outlying groups.
The rich get richer as the rules are in their favor. Most of these rules are made by their own group of people and so it is hard to see them changing in a way that would negatively affect their own lives. And it would have to if we wanted to see equality of wealth and community.
Instead they try to compensate by giving away state assets to the poor and pretend that they care. If they really cared then they would make the hard choices and stop giving people everything for free.
We find ourselves in the sad position where people that are working 40 hours a week and killing themselves trying to earn a living are far worse off than those who sit at home doing nothing with their hands out.
Meanwhile the rich sit in their ivory towers and consolidate their wealth to get even richer as the poor middle class fight over scraps and try not to starve.
Their are enough resources in this country, that everybody could survive comfortable but the hard decisions would need to be made by the government and they would piss almost every body off.
- Ensure that everybody is paying their full amount of tax.
- No deals for rich individuals or companies.
- Ensure that funds are accounted for at government level.
- Bring state wages/ pensions in line with the private sector.
- Amalgamate all social departments and have one very basic payment for those who refuse to work.
- Bring in supplementary wages for those on welfare that require them to work on behalf of the community to get payed.
- Lower taxes on the lowest earners and make it profitable to keep a full time job.
It is far too easy to keep the status quo as it is the least hassle for the politicians. To make positive changes would require self sacrifice and causing friction. Nobody can make them do it so until their hand is forced i don't think that we will ever see that day.
Is Hive any better?
A the moment not by much. We are a small community but growing slowly and have a similar economy. Our creator economy. A place where the rich get richer and the smallest struggle along.
The difference here is that every user has the chance to grow their account without a centralized barrier to progress. In real life we have governments and commitments to hold us back or stop us going in certain directions. On hive we make our own choices.
The drawback is that it is still very hard to crack that upper class of users. A lot of the biggest accounts have auto-votes and stick with the people that they know. It's not wrong but it is not the most helpful practice to grow our eco-system. A lot of these accounts getting the big votes have put in a lot of time and effort to get there and deserve to be rewarded for that work.
What would be even better however is to spread the wealth a bit more. To fully decentralize we need to see as many people as possible holding more hive. Less whales and more minnows. Millions of them. If that is ever going to happen then we need to support their early stages of growth and encourage them to grow.
Even small steps like looking at new posts and spreading the votes around or commenting on new users work. It's very easy to stay in our own circle and I'm guilty of it myself but i will try harder.
This is my latest voting chart and spread of votes. There is a good mix for multiple authors and a few for my usual favorites.
We have the chance to do a little bit better with this eco-system and that will start by taking small steps.
Just look outside of our usual circle and see what else is out there to start. If we can keep people active and buying into the system we will all be better of fin the long run as a community and as individuals.
Long term thinking is the key.
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Right now we couldn’t have even one million minnows, let alone millions of them. Not enough Vests exist for that. Or will in the future, since the HP needed per Vest is constantly increasing.
But I’ve long thought that we need to have nomenclature for something between Red Fish and Minnow. Minnow starts at a million Vests, Red Fish is everything below that. Keeping with our powers of ten system, maybe a new category for more than 100,000 Vests but less than a million, so starting at about 54 HP.
@tenkminnows has been trying to build the pool of Minnows for a few years, not much luck so far.
Convincing user that they should buy and stake coins is hard work. Too many people come into the platform believing that they can make a fortune by posting second rate content and dumping the coins earned.
They then find out that amount earned is relative to the amount invested. They become angry and leave.
I think the best way to play the HIVE game is to start by buying and staking some HIVE; then testing to see how long it takes to get the investment back.
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I know that we can't have millions of minnows yet..... But i do see it as a natural evolution of the blockchain over ten or so years. Millions of tiny users that make decentralization truly possible. Decisions made by stake weighted voting where it is majority rules as there are no huge stakeholders to sway the vote like they do at the moment.
It might be a new category of users with about 50hp depending on price and how many users that we have. In time to come, that might be a very hard milestone to reach and carry a lot of weight.
At $100 per hive it would take people a long time to stack up that amount.
Especially with the user retention problems that we have. Those first yards are the hardest in reaching a few hundred hive. After that you see how the game works and it gets a lot easier.
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Hey @niallon11,
Do you mind supporting the HiveBuzz proposal for 2022 so our team can continue its work next year?
That would be much appreciated! Your feedback, if any, is welcome of course. Thanks.
https://peakd.com/me/proposals/199
How is there no centralized barrier when there is clearly consolidated punching down from witnesses and whales to censor certain content?
https://ecency.com/hive-167922/@kennyskitchen/downvotes-a-complex-issue-indicative-of-a-failure-in-design
https://ecency.com/hive-122315/@phusionphil/why-are-the-top-30-witnesses-using-the-dpos-system-to-coerce-people-into-a-status-quo-on-hive
https://ecency.com/witness/@ura-soul/the-hive-freedom-proxy-over-dollar17m-worth-of-hive-witness-votes-available-for-serious-free-speech-witnesses
https://ecency.com/pob/@frot/does-anyone-have-any-good-ideas
People have spent multiple years growing on steem/hive and all that work can get zeroed out by the larger stakeholders and witnesses that are colluding. The last person has also received threats and violence and is being harassed and stalked in real life so it's worse than just losing out on what's on Hive.
There is only no centralized barriers for people that tow the line and say the right things and that's no freedom at all. That's compelled speech and results in Hive mirroring the same problems we have with access journalism elsewhere.
It is a huge problem when we don't address the churn rate on Hive and instead try to promote shilling to onboard people to replace the offboarding. This is tantamount to fraud. I would say Hive is currently much worse than other alternatives but all this could fixed in a few forks if people educated themselves on the issues and rallied instead of just trying to find new marks for the current predatory system or hand waving the problems with platitudes like "be consistent" which while on their face aren't bad ideas but historically have mixed results.
I've seen a couple of those posts already and agree with you on whale abuse. It's a lot better now than it used to be but we are still too top heavy where a few users can wipe out the votes of all the others. Decentralization will take time and it wont be easy.
People in a position of power, rarely like to let that power go. In the past i have seen hundreds of positive users leave due to voting harassment, some by popular witnesses and large stakeholders who should be smarter than that.
Personally, I am leaning more towards the concept of second layer tokens providing the voting rewards with hive itself just needed for staking, resource credits and voting with curation taken out of the equation. A lot of the people who left would never have done so if HP wasn't used as a weapon against them. HP would instead be staked and new hive minted payed out as interest for staking rather than curation with the tribes being used for creation rewards and if people want hive can trade for it on the hive based markets.
I will read through those other post and get myself more educated on what is happening for others on the chain.
We do need changes before trying to bring in a lot more people as the same old issues have never left the eco-system.
This is another issues that is fixed by building a separate interface onto hive to show any content that you want. The content is always going to be there but again rewards distribution causes so much of the conflict among our community that we need something different.
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Hive is not necessarily 'fair', but the big accounts have an interest in in growing. Many of them do delegate to curation projects and that can spread the rewards out. I know certain people are guaranteed a big vote every time, but I bet that's not accounting for a huge percentage of the reward pool.
I would take many years for me to earn my way to whale and I can't afford to buy the HIVE to get there, but I'm doing okay thanks to putting in lots of time. New users will have to appreciate that it is not money for nothing and those who try to cheat the system in various ways are likely to be spotted and dealt with.
We do have a lot of big egos and there are long-running feuds, but I think the majority of larger accounts have good intentions. Otherwise we would not be seeing as much development and innovation.
I do my best to support some of the smaller accounts and have got support from whales for creative people doing good stuff. It is about the long term, but we can each be doing something to improve Hive.
I want to see us have many more active accounts. That will help spread the rewards. It will mean issues with abuse, but that's part of growing pains and we will find ways to deal with it.
Hive five!
You definitely do and it's noticed across the chain. We are still a small community so it's easy to see who is doing good work and helping to grow the community. From 10kminnows, to twitter promo to helping newbies. It gets noticed.
We have a lot of great users here and big accounts that are helping to grow the eco-system. As it should be. They have the biggest stake and the most interest to help hive flourish. Any destructive behavior only hurts their own behavior which always makes me wonder who would spend their time attacking their own investment.
I do think that the majority of users are great people with positive intentions so it's just a matter of trying to avoid the ones who don't or fighting against their influence.
We have a lot of growing pains to overcome yet but we have a hardcore group of users that are in it for the long haul and hoping for a big future.
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User retention has always been a difficult thing for HIVE to maintain. Being a newbie can be tough but its our mindsets that need to change. Earning 10 cents on a post here is 10 cents more then a post on Facebook makes but that is not what people see. People see post with hundreds and their own with cents and then get frustrated.
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Your right on this one.
They either need to be having fun or earning crypto to stay. We can help by creating a better user experience but until we have apps that rival facebook and twitter it will be hard to get people to switch for ten cents.
There needs to be an incentive to stay until then and teach them the benefits of stacking and web3.
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I was just suspended, AGAIN, from Twitter. I think that is more motivation for me to stay here on the Hive Ecosystem and engage more. I like short quick content however until Project Blank becomes a reality I like the interaction in the comments. Although , most times a day or 2 can go by before a response, it's still fun. There are many times that no response is given. If more real time responses and engagement could be a reality I think many users could find a way to grow their accounts and we could retain users and bridge the gap between Minnows and Whales.
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Over time the main sites will do a lot of the onboarding work for us through their random bans and censorship. This isn't much good to us until we have the right alternatives for people to join.
I'm the same as yourself. Twitter is fun and we can't get project blank soon enough for everybody. I do like noise for short content and it will fill a gap until we finally get our own platform for short content.
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It's tough and I know that when I started out, it was tough to get votes. After all nobody knew who I was so you just need to show up everyday and eventually you might get noticed. I don't mind if I am not part of the inner circle but I do know that we all stand a chance so long as we keep trying. If those whales just sell off their stake then their share will also decrease over time.
So I think HIVE's system is better than the current system.
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Well i believe it's going to always be a big flaw in hive because i don't think it was meant to work on a capitalistic system. I'll explain if you look at the early conversations of Dan Larimer and Ned Scott. it's evidence that suggest they felt like it would be all this free creation of money and velocity of money.
They really felt the whales and many of the participants would look at it like oh this is like we're creating money from nothing and it's getting in everyones hands. So a guy could make one post that would net him thousands of dollars. That one guy may be good as far as earnings for the entire year.
The problem is the key conceprt of these dpos systems seem to revolve around social media integration and participation. This is different from platforms that are more money based like bitcoin or xrp was. However the problem with social media was it was always to a great degree meant to be the participants being the most valuable resources.
So the misconception is that you look at something like facebook for example and well hey you don't make anything there. Why wouldn't everyone come to like something like hive or dpos. That's an incorrect understanding of how social media and networks work. They don't work like membership sites in the sense you pay to play. So something like facebook value wise is much more valuable than something like hive because of it's great communication reach and it's free to the user atleast in idea. The currency in this case isn't the us dollar. The currency is attention value.
The problem is hive doesn't have enough attention value to matter. So what i'm saying to you is that facebook does pay it's users a tremendous amount of value it's just not in currencies like the us dollar. However the attention of these social media companies that pay billions of dollars into servers annually do translate to value going back to you. So obviously you won't have the actual reach on hive such as companies and individuals gain value from on the instagrams and twitter.
In Hive's case they pay you really actual money but it's so insignificant to most people it's not worth the time. Even when i go on blogs it's the same blogs of the same people all the time. It's not alot of new blogs and authors that i'm not familiar with. When i log in i already know who i'm expecting to see and meet. So that suggest to me it's probably first off a small group of people with the skillset who can even write proper blogs and articles which now means you've condensed this down to a skilled occupation. Which is not going to be very valuable unless you have a great amount of people reading the articles which i don't think that's going to happen with the oversaturation of free information all over the internet.
So the only way i think the problem gets solved of making this anykind of viable solution beyond just a small crevice someplace. Would depend on a freemium service model. Now there are many smart developers around here that could build a system an ai that does that intuitively. Bitcoin MYK is a system that rewards on posts without the interaction of a human, although humans can upvote posts manually. I don't think it should be necessary for you to receive upvotes etc.,
It's never going to be enough incentive in upvoting other peoples content and so that's going to stagnate the process. So eventually some freemium service free blockchain is going to come along and just do it better. Unless you have something again like a second layer solution like bitcoin myk. However hive is i think likely going to be too slow to catch on to many of the issues in association with this.
As far as classes go. I think it's enough resources on the planet which points to another flaw in hive and how hive is as an economic model many times worse than the standard economy so it's not even close to a solution with it's distribution rate and concentration of wealth and influence.
Influence is the problem. HIve should have been developed as a bonded system. Meaning investors receive competitive interest rates each year for their stakes without the influence of their hive power. that's how bitcoin myk works. On the platform itself everyone starts out the same. You can only earn based on your level of participation not making money off other people. That's why capitalism is slavery and this idea about who won't work who wants free stuff and who doesn't. The problem is capitalist i would question to what degree they work because their entire model is based on making money off the backs of other peoples labor. In any system we'd call that slavery if you earn off the back of someone else. Pope Innocent introduced this modern concept of capitalism as a means to enslave certain groups of people. It's slavery and it's wrong. Somehow we been brainwashed to believe its a good thing, lol.
Just to illustrate how evil it is. So we're clear on this and no misunderstandings. We're moving now into the age of the robot economy. This is a real economic term. Now what this means is the robots will perform much of the labor. So for those who wanna go well the poor lazy people don't wanna work and nothing is free will have to recant that. Most of the labor like we're seeing now will be performed by a robot. So that issue will be a nonissue.
However pay attention to this. Capitalism is so evil and the influence system that was poorly designed by Dan Larimer which he later regretted very much he had made a mistake and underestimated it but learned.it was wrong and he stated so. In this evil idea rich people and power players will try to control all the ip's and tech of these robots to still enslave other people by taking al ltheir land and resources and enslaving them the very same way. Will have nothign to do with work or people trying to fight for rights and benefits they may or may not deserve.
Watch when i tell you these same greedy people who even manifest themselves on hive. YOu got these richer capitalist whales on hive that have this same disgusting mindset because either they don't know any better or are just idiots. Are playing that role now that will be played in teh future. WE live now in an age of abundance for the most part we always have. This is all a creation and machinations you all fall for that is baloney. Now i'm not saying there isn't a degree of advancement and incentive that was needed several hundred years ago. The system naturally developed through it. However i am saying now it's not necessary.
I've pretty much lost all hope in the blockchain as far as spearheading this. The blockchain will have a role to play however right now companies like Meta or facebook i think will stumble on to this age of abundance with the metaverse and creating a new value system and jobs on teh metaverse they hiring even now thousands upon thousands of virtual workers with all skillsets to work in the metaverse. Hive you gotta have a skill for the most part that is a highly developed skill to write. Most of the population won't have that. In the metaverse you can have a guy who's a ticket salesman or tour guide. So thats going to be development i dont think the blockchain is able to do yet. I don't think they have the resources or the focus so its far off for the chain in the beginning maybe later it will feel the gaps. however now it's failed to do that.
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Thanks for the comprehensive reply to the post. I always appreciate good thought out feedback.
This is the source of a lot of the conflict at the moment and the past five years. Reward distribution and everybody thinking that their ways is the best way. I do htink that we will be better of moving to an interest based system where the hive reward pool is distributed based on your stake rather than votes. It would take a lot of the conflict out of the system and create an incentive to better apps and community tokens. Governance and social media don't mix.
They wont come over because it's not a straight swap. If the question however was if people would like to earn money from their facebook activity then the answer would be 100% yes. Most people don't care about decentralization, keys, privacy or the other benefits of web3. People trickle in slowly for various reasons but until we have apps that can compete in user experience we are going nowhere fast.
The main point for now is to retain the few who do find their way into this space and start building a network of users. Facebook has billions now but at one time they had less than a thousand users as well. They just kept building the features that people wanted until more and more users joined and built up that amazing network that we see today.
Your right. We can't compete with meta and their money, reach, developers, influence and networks. Not now and not in ten years. But that doesn't mean that we cant carve out our own niche online. An area for games, apps, nfts, communities that are all linked to the hive eco-system.
There is a lot of merit in what you say and how people will nearly always do what is best for themselves, whales included. It's in their interest to run the system for now so hopefully we can get to a stage where it all runs to a better standard for the whole community and we make it work.
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I'd strongly recommend posting your wealth equality posts on bitcoinmyk.com. it trades on hive engine. instead of whales deciding to grace us with an upvote, colluding with their friends, upvoting their hot girlfriends, lol.. and creating a spoil system. bitcoin myk an ai does all the upvoting. you can manually upvote but the system does the upvoting nobody does it. it's an ai. so everyone gets a fair shake on their contributions.. thats what the future models will be like and what people will opt for. not a matter of if but when.
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@niallon11 , I know there are autovote services and Curation Trail services. What if we got these services to hault all services and reset which would require all users to log back in and then possibly rethink their autovotes and trails? Also, what about people that signed up for these services and are Missing in Action or all together gone? Resetting these services would eliminate inactive users. I think this could be beneficial to Minnows in that those who are benefiting from Ghost votes would not be taking as much of the reward pool. They can be lazy knowing they have guaranteed votes from absentee voters. It may also have the effect of everyone creating better content to compete for real votes. Just another idea.
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Flat tax percentage with people under the min paying no tax. There’s no deductions and business pays a higher percentage as well.
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