Story of Two Hive Beings
There is Hive, and there is another Hive. One is the decentralized blockchain for web3 that we all know and love. The other is a company, Hive Blockchain Technologies Ltd. Hive is one of the beautiful common words in English, of course many would like to have them as their brand. So, it is not surprising to see various entities choosing to use the same word that carries meaningful message. However, some of us were a bit surprised when we found out, not only there was another Hive, but it also used a word blockchain in its branding.
Hive, the decentralized blockchain for web3, was launched in March 20, 2020. We all packed up our belongings, loaded them up on a truck and moved to the Hive land. As we were building tents, unpacking, and making this new place home, a news started circulating that Hive was being sued. lol. Hive who? when? what? The question everybody had in mind was - How do you sue a decentralized network? And why would you do that? Turns out there was another entity who also had Hive in its brand name. That is Hive Blockchain Technologies Ltd.
They issued ceased and desist memo 3 days after Hive was launched. Wow, that is fast. And they say nobody knows about Hive. This memo dated March 23, 2020, and is still up on their website under the title - HIVE BLOCKCHAIN REQUESTS CEASE AND DESIST FROM NEW STEEM COMMUNITY HARD FORK USING SAME NAME. See for yourself by visiting the link. I don't think anything came out of it. Who would you sue in a decentralized network? Most importantly why even bother? I would suggest this can be positive thing for this business. More about that later.
In their own website this is how they describe themselves:
HIVE Blockchain Technologies Ltd. is a cryptocurrency miner and data center operator.
Ok, so this is not a blockchain. This is not a decentralized network. It is just a company who is involved in mining bitcoin, ethereum, and other coins. And it is also a data center operator. So, what is the problem again? There is no competition, no conflict here. Let's look at the contents of cease and desist memo.
HIVE believes this Blockchain’s use of “Hive” and “Hive Blockchain” is, intentionally or otherwise, confusing with the Company’s brand, which it has used globally over the Internet in relation to its connection with blockchain related goods and services including cryptocurrency. This Blockchain’s use of the same brand in connection with similar goods and services also passes off on the goodwill that HIVE has developed.
I personally have never heard of this company before. I would think same applies to most of the people in the Hive network. But above statement is implying that, this naming was chosen because of the reputation this company has built?! The question I would ask is, why do you need to jump into conclusions so quick. Why not find out more first. That wouldn't even be my first question. I will tell you my first question in a little bit.
To find out the backstories on how Hive was named, and logos were created, I had to refer to @roelandp's post from the around the time when Hive was launched. He explains everything in details in this post - (Hello Hive); First Post: Hive - becoming of the brand. Feel free to read the post if you haven't already.
In the end there was a list of 120 names for the chain after which a couple of voting rounds finally Hive stuck with most of the people, followed by "Clout" and "Carbon" which I personally also found a good one, referring to Graphene software.
Some alternatives like my suggested Hiive was voted out as well as combo words such as HiveNetwork, Hivebase, etcetera. So Hive it was after a final "yes/no" vote where 100% voted for.
That looks like a community effort in figuring out the name to call the new home in a democratic fashion. And it doesn't look like there were any other considerations, like say use already existing company's brand name so we can capitalize on their success. lol, that sounds funny writing. If we were to choose a success story of a company, I probably would go with Apple. And also an apple a day keeps the doctor away - they say.
There is more I would like to show you from the memo of Hive Blockchain Technlogies Ltd, to really try to understand them:
“We are a strong supporter of innovation within blockchain technology, and we have no issue with the proposed blockchain beyond its name, nor do we have any opinion on its reported dispute related to Steem. However, for legal reasons, we have no option but to seek to protect our interests, dispel the ongoing confusion and avoid any potential damage to our reputation. We are hopeful this can be easily resolved with a name change. Any continued usage by the Blockchain will only evidence an intentionally predatory, misleading and fraudulent strategy.”
This leads me to the first question I wanted to ask. How are you in a mining business if you don't understand the concept of decentralization? If you do understand, and truly are supporter of innovation within blockchain technology, then this memo would never happen. Anybody who has read Satoshi's Bitcoin whitepaper (which should be a requirement for any CEO or executive officer of a company whose business model to make money of bitcoin or other cryptos) you probably would understand at least a little bit what decentralization is about. Those who support this journey and efforts, I would think would embrace a truly decentralized network. And probably be even honored to share the name.
It seems like they were concerned with potential damage to their reputation. I understand that, in business reputation means money. Well, show me the money then. This company has a publicly traded stock. I had to look at what happened to their stock price since the launch of Hive.
On March 23rd, 2020 this stock was trading at around 13 cents. Since the launch of Hive, the price of their stock never visited these levels. It just kept going up, and up. I am not claiming that Hive, the decentralized network, caused the price of stocks go up. It is possible. But it sure didn't do any damage to its reputation.
An interesting fact I have learnt recently is that the stock ticker symbol for Hive Blockchain Technologies Ltd, used to be $HVBT. Their ticker symbol changed to $HIVE in September 14, 2021. Hmmm, ok. Are they trying to bank on Hive's reputation now. Smart. Why stop there? Get on Hive. There are more benefits that Hive can deliver not only to this company and others too. But they are in a unique position with have a similar branding. More importantly, for Hive Blockchain Technologies Ltd to embrace Hive, the decentralized blockchain network for web3 will show that they truly believe in this innovation.
I wish the best for both Hive beings in this holiday season. May they both live long and prosper. I am not a financial expert or any other kind of expert. Everything in this post are simply my opinions.
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There is one more Hive the beehive where all members remain together and this Hive suits exactly we do in our blockchain.
BTW what the company was afraid in begining...now started to take leaf out of Hive ecosystem...changing to #Hive recently is their first step forward.
Beehive has 7 letters in it. :) What is beehive?
Well....I think things more clearer.😉
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This was interesting to read,
Thank you @geekgirl.
I saw this Hive Blockchain LTD in search engine results. I never knew they have a lawsuit against Hive. They misunderstood a lot back then. Mostly that Hive is decentralized. Also that Hive is a community. This is a niche within itself. An association with the name has only benifited them.
Carbon might have been a good name also but who knows if there is a carbon blockchain LTD ready to sue...
I don't think there was a lawsuit. Just the initial C&D. You can't really sue anybody, nobody owns Hive.
Now that we are used to Hive, I don't think I would change it to anything else.
I see the difference now and I'm sticking to the Hive as well. !PIZZA
So informative! I learned so much! Keep up the great work!
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Yeah they really didn't make any fuss after that initial 'C&D'.
I think you hit the nail on the head, if anything Hive helped them and their stock...And now they will continue to benefit from the name. Because I am pretty sure, not a single person here thought...Oh wow, let's take that mining company's name and benefit from it lol
lol, yup!
I like too much this post cause is informátive! OUR #hive is awesome!
😊👏👏🙏💜
Blessings and have a Nice xmax time
Yes it was very undude of them to do this. Kind of gives off Craig Wrong vibes. You know, someone who doesn't really belong in a community that endorses decentralization of authority and control.
I like that phrase:
I confess I am not sure exactly what it means, other then very uncool, but it is unique and interesting.
Pretty Cool Dude
It's a reference to the movie "Big Lebowski." It means out of character.
Oh!
Thanks
By the way...I am promoting Hive on Twitter and chasing big dreams, here is a contest if you are interested in earning HBD. It started out Leo, but I changed it to HBD.
https://peakd.com/nobansonhive/@shortsegments/jack-dorsey-tweet-contest-earn-1-leo-for-a-tweet-reply
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Smiles, them changing their symbol to HVBT to $HIVE means something. Now, since we do have the same name, the success of Hive indirectly would bring to their company too; Hive blockchain.
You can't own words, but it's still an awkward causality lol
I heard the news then but I knew nothing can happen. They might need to sue all accounts on Hive, lol! Maybe the change of name in their stock is to leverage on our Hive. This chain is definitely doing super good. Thanks for sharing this.
I think it was just a mistake on their part which they probably still don't realize.
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Basic of learning everyday, I learned what I don't know or heard about, today. Thanks, keep the good work
To play Devil's advocate:
I can understand the logic. Hive Blockchain Technlogies Ltd. was/is probably afraid of genericide of their trademark. Sending a C&D letter was Hive Blockchain Technlogies Ltd. raising a timely objection and they don't have to take legal action immediately. If they sit back for a little while and document any confusion in the market then they can take legal action with that evidence to support their legal claims.
It would be better if there was more reform of intellectual property laws so decades old laws weren't applied to contemporary technology.
Maybe Hive Blockchain Technlogies Ltd. wouldn't do it quite like $JRR but something along those lines. File a WIPO complaint. Get court injunctions against any websites that facilitate trading of infringing token.
I am sure there are more legal remedies lawyers have in their arsenal but my evil is specialized in hologram-themed capers in the Gothan City area and not being an intellectual property troll.😄
These are great points. I do understand the logic for a company to defend its interests. However, this is not just any other company. Their business model to make money of bitcoin's success, which I would think require some basic understanding about bitcoin and what it stands for.
Their actions showed they are either ignorant or don't care about bitcoin vision, which included decentralization.
I highly doubt they would be successful in any fight against domain names. Because their business model has nothing to do with doing business online and if they really needed these domains they had plenty of time and opportunity to acquire any hive related ones.
Thank you @holovision.
I hold both HIVE Stock in my TFSA (tax free savings account in Canada) on Wealthsimple and HIVE crypto on exchanges as well.
Hive stock is listed on open markets and they probably have to make an attempt to sue any breach of brand recognition etc even if they don't follow through it may discourage other online or brick and mortar companies in related industries to run with the same name. I would argue that it is probably wise to do especially for a company with listed stocks as the board have shareholders to answer to.
Since 2017 it was listed on the Canadian exchange as HIVE.
With regards to changing the ticker in America other than consolidating the ticker to match Canada, there have been studies that a portfolio of readable/memorable tickers outperform a bunch of letters. i.e. using HIVE as a ticket is better than HVBT everything else being equal.
https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2019/10/07/woof-cake-boom-stocks-with-catchy-tickers-beat-the-market
I'm not sure if HIVE crypto had any positive or otherwise impact on HIVE stock. I don't think a small cap crypto is changing the price on a larger cap listed stock in any meaningful way.
Thanks for adding this information to the conversation. I didn't realize they used two different ticker symbols: one in Canada, and another in US. That makes me wonder why they didn't go with HIVE ticker in the first place. Maybe it wasn't available at the time of listing?
They are not large cap. lol. They are only a billion dollar company. Just like Hive is a billion dollar network.
Keep in mind that when their stock price was at around 15 cents they were much more smaller.
The main point I was trying to make is this. HBT Ltd is a mining company, whose business model is making money from mining bitcoin and other coins. They clearly see this as a profitable opportunity. Moreover, for their success is tied to the success of bitcoin and other crypto projects.
That said, as an investor in the company, wouldn't you expect the CEO and the management of the company to be familiar with bitcoin technology, what it stands for and maybe at least have read the bitcoin whitepaper? If they have then, they should not only understand how decentralized networks/blockchains work, but also be allies for such efforts.
To it is clear, they are just like any other traditional company, just see money and want more of it. Everything else doesn't matter. So this is either ignorance or hypocrisy. Let me know if there is a third option.
Thank you @colm.hive
Now the market cap of Hive stock is 2-3x the crypto but tiny in comparison to bigger companies and yes agreed at the time they were much smaller as well.
Also agreed on the rest - It definitely is petty and against the spirit of the field they are profiting from.
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I’d say that’s a pretty blatant move on their part to take advantage of the opportunity to have the same ticket symbol as a highly capable blockchain.
Somebody needs to tell Mr. Frank Holmes (EXECUTIVE CHAIRMAN of Hive Blockchain Technologies Ltd) to bring his world famous Frank Talk CEO Blog on over to the community driven Hive.
I like how most of the corporate team member’s bios (under the about tab) say something like “Has over 20 years of experience in blah blah blah” as if that solidifies their legitimacy in blockchain tech. I can assume that none of their team has 20+ years of experience with blockchain. Evidently they do know how to make money at least.
lol. Yet none of them know what decentralization is.
I'd seen their company too when I first joined Hive trying to learn more about the Hive...I can't say that their price changed because of this community, as they are a mining company and bitcoin shot up in value not long afterward... but bitcoin went up closer to February if memory serves... so who knows? I didn't know about the lawsuit, but that's funny.
Yes, you are right. They stock price going up most like is because of bitcoin price going up.
You will wonder how I wait for such informative writeups. Thanks a ton for sharing such precious information! :)
It sure looks sketchy but I was always concerned about why the name HIVE was used. Of course your post included some reasons so I am a little more comfortable with it now. I am a bit surprised they want to grift off HIVE by renaming their stock though.
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My friend uses the Hive Blockchain company for his mining software. He had no issue setting it up and was new to mining so i think it must be a decent community over at the other hive.
Maybe. I have no clue. I am not interested in investing in a mining company that doesn't understand the basics of bitcoin and decentralization.
Sadly when you have over 6 0's on the end of your taxable income, these first world psychopathic governments try to come take 50% as capital gains.
If they have found out how to dodge tax, they wouldn't have much of a choice.
Did you know Saudi Arabi doesn't have capital gains tax?
Interesting read. I wasn't aware of the other company.
Brand names are challenging. Ideally it should be a made up word (if possible) that is easy to say and spell and that sounds nice. It should be easy to search for and ideally, the only option that comes up in the search engine. Google is a good example of that. It's probably the smartest and most successful brand name in history.
I like the name Hive. It's definitely the best of those options they had to choose from. With that C&D letter out there though, there may be trouble for Hive down the road. Its possible that the more successful Hive becomes, the more likely the company will be to claim damages. For instance, if our Hive becomes more searchable or something. Hopefully no further action is taken but we will see.
I doubt it. The worst case scenario, highly unlikely, but let's say it did happen: they can get the domain name. But Hive is not one domain or website. Even for blogging most people use peakD, ecency or Leofinance.
That's why I believe there is a lot more opportunities for them in cooperation rather than conflict.
Yeah that's a good point. Hive is decentralized in more ways than one.
Oh, thank you for this story! Stumbled across this Hive all the time when searching for information on web 2.0. But still didn't have time to research the issue, now I have!)
!PIZZA
!BEER
Web 3 is a popular trend. If we can do it, it really thrives
Keep up the good good work... have really learn alot from the community....
Amazing one, I for one wouldn't have known until you mentioned it on your blog. Thanks for sharing
Great post!! Very interesting the transition from $HVBT to $HIVE... lol it's incredible what the time can do ;)
Hi @geekgirl
Your definitely in a retrospective mood right now, which seems natural as the year end draws near to us…
I was at first concerned about this Cease and Desist order, but I chalked it up to Lawyers doing their job, and protecting their client against all possible threats; real or imagined.
Since then nothing has happened further, to the best of my knowledge, and this is just a paper trail for action in the future, should they choose to pursue this, which I think they won’t, but stranger things have happened.
Merry Christmas
🎄 🎁
Hi @shortsegments!
Good catch. Yes, I didn't notice myself, but it doesn't look like I have been going a bit retro.
Merry Christmas to you too!
We all know and they all know Hive was the catalyst of their pump.
If 2022 turns out to be the year we Hivers anticipate it to be, then it may be wise for the blockchain company to establish a partnership or connection with Our Hive which is beneficial to both. Nothing going as far as "HIVE, the Official Cryptocurrency of Hive Blockchain Technologies." but something acknowledging the influence of Our Hive and Their Services.
Dear @geekgirl
Your support for the HiveBuzz proposal this year has been much appreciated but it will end in a few days!
Do you mind renewing your vote for 2022 so the team can keep up with its work?
https://peakd.com/me/proposals/199
Thank you and Merry Christmas 🎅!
Done! Merry Christmas to you too!
Thank you for your support, really appreciate it! 👍
If my memory serves me right, I think I first stumbled with this Nasdaq Hive around month of August this year when one redditor posted a press release on reddit with a beautiful lady promoting Hive. I think the poster himself was confused because he posted a link of that mining company on a subreddit exclusively for Hive, the social media platform for Web 3.0. At first, I was also wondering, but when I saw a different logo, I realized that they are two different companies. That change in the stock ticker symbol is interesting. I remember listening to CTT by @theycallmedan that Hive being decentralized and owned by the community is un-suable. I actually posted this question on my Facebook profile 2 days ago: "Question: If a blockchain is truly decentralized, can it be sued?"
Verry important post .. good job 👏👏👏
Good read. I learn something new everytime I come across a post about the two Hives.
Maybe they were just trying to create publicity to paint an image for themselves as a famous company while, the face, nobody heard about them...
So damn stupid, it illustrates the lack of marketing and branding knowledge. Somebody literally came up with the word Hive and went with it. Without once thinking to check on Google to see who else used the name!
I did an article on it almost immediately, but was completely ignored. Basically it's harmful because when new users try and search us, they'll come up with the other company.
So many names to choose from, and we choose one from a blockchain company 🤦🏾♂️
Cg