RE: No Time (repost)
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Chaos is very hard to explain, and in terms of regular understood commonly used language, it tends to be connoted negatively.
Hard to explain? That depends. I can make it simple and say that chaos is the opposite of order. And the connotation, positive or negative, depends on the type and kind of order we compare it to. I can easily imagine a kind of order compared to which chaos is to be preferred; some accelerationists think that way... In fact we define all things by what they are not; we know what's a chair because it's not a table or a space-ship. We also know that we've evolved to crave order; pattern-recognition is one our prime talents, so much so that we seek patters everywhere, sometimes to our detriment, but mostly to our advantage.
Indeed, it depends :)
Making it simple is a matter of your will, is it not?
What are the "things" which might exist out of the reach of comparable objects? You cannot possibly know, right?
What are "accelerationists"? I don't understand.
:D HaHa, yes, true.
Here we end up again what one means with chaos and order. What my advantage or detriment is, might be for you something different. So, I am unable to say if I count amongst what you call "some" or "most".
Let me show why I said, it's hard to explain for me.
One might think there is only one way to organize a library. So that the "dumbest" can come in and search for a book title. We sort our libraries here with the authors name within the sections which are sorted by themes like "philosophy", "travel" etc..
Chaos could be defined where, when people come in and search for a certain theme or interest, they cannot make sense of the presented order. Like, just putting all the authors randomly into shelves and not caring about how the people decide or put the books back in the shelf.
To see people being relaxed about such a situation, it would require that someone
etc. - you get the idea
Would this be chaos in a final state? For, when people randomly put up and down what they find, nobody will ever find again what he once found?
Is a library just one space which cannot be seen as separated to other spaces?
If you take the "universe" instead of a "library", what do you think about the ability to make sense to what is presented to us as order and chaos? What you learned and observe about the universe you could compare to how you arrange books in a library. You could decide to clean it up and start to order those books and make it a collection about knowledge. Outside the realm of the library though there are other spaces, other matters etc. etc.
You cannot tell whether the universe indeed is presenting itself ordered or chaotic, for we have no chance to find that out, ultimately. What we don't know, we cannot take into our thought processes. Factors (reference points) unknown to us, don't appear on our radar, we remain unable to step out of our existence as an earthly being. So, what do we do? We decide on matters undecidable. Humans tend to fill the blanks with an "x" or give those blanks a name, like "dark matter" etc.
If you accept for a moment that pattern recognition works in the same way that you deal with what you think to know "is there" and shows you a certain pattern, this same pattern might be distorted or false by the fact that we don't know all the factors but only those we (want to) make sense of. To make sense of the knowns is a matter of will and invention. For one it's awesome and mind blowing, for the other it's not relevant and for the next one it's frightening.
Ultimately there is no way for us to explain the universe, it's an interesting philosophical question but as Einstein is mentioned to have said: "On the bottom of the petri-dish you see God". A poet might have said "the Universe consists of burned almonds" (Alan Watts used this expression). This is not a form of verbal explanation but something which gives a taste of the inexplicable, because it causes irritation, if not laughter.
Explanation, as I see it, is not an ultimate tool, either.
The brightest minds have dealt with the matter over the course of hundreds and thousands of years. Still, I think, we are lost in explanations.
But we can tell. At least to the extent that we recognize the order of the universe in accordance to the order our pattern-seeking nature has discovered. There will always be unknowns, thank the heavens for that, but we need, for our basic survival, order in the model of the universe we build in our mind. We can't escape this, so trying to argue otherwise is fruitless. Recognizing faces is something we're very good at, it's simply how we've evolved. Consequently we see face-patterns literally everywhere; our mind needs only two dots and a line to see a face. We see patterns in space and in time, we have no choice in the matter; the cadence of day and night, and of the seasons, are patterns essential to our survival. I hate the calendar and the clock, I feel restrained in my freedom by them, but on the other hand I'm fully aware of the fact that there's no possible way we would have evolved without them.
That doesn't matter though. Like I said: we have no choice in the matter.
Again: that doesn't matter. And what's more, I'd say that it's awesome, mind blowing and relevant for almost all of us. Without our pattern-seeking behavior we wouldn't have the wheel, engines or the computers we're currently using to have this conversation.
Your comparison to a library is on point. And I'll say this: the reader who is not in a hurry, does not look for something specifically but randomly, likes to have more than one experience at the time, likes to be surprised and must not read for the purpose of earning money or another given task or duty will also be just fine in a library that's ordered in a way that leads me efficiently to the material I'm specifically looking for. Just like I can choose to ignore the clock and calendar, this visitor of the library can choose to not mind the presented order.
I feel the opposite. Explanation is an ultimate tool. Not the only one, but one we sorely need. And I don't think we're lost in explanations, but in individualist fundamentalism. What we're lost in, is the idea that there's no such thing as universal truth, that there's only 7.5 billion individual truths; this kind of culminated in the Trump press-secretary talking about "alternative facts". And in millions embracing QAnon conspiracy theories as their personal truth. Now, don't get me wrong here and think that I'm not keeping open the possibility that we're all just brains in vats connected to a virtual-world creating machine. Maybe consciousness comes before tangible reality; we ultimately can not know, like you've said several times there will always be gaps, even in the patterns we're forced to recognize by our minds. But, and I'll repeat it, that doesn't matter because we have no choice but the accept the model of the universe as it is presented to us by our inner eyes. And we can rest assured in the knowledge that this model is one that has allowed us to survive and prosper for hundreds of thousands of years.
I've dug up an old post of mine from three years ago and reposted it yesterday; I believe that does a better job at explaining how I feel about the other side of this medal. Have a peek at it here if you're interested :-)
Hm ... I see you are using the term "we" a lot. Have you tried to speak in the "I"- (or "you") form more extensively? I noticed that this changes the form of how I think and express myself. I try to avoid the "we" form as much as I can, but I fail sometimes in doing so.
I welcome it that you say, thank the heavens for the unknowns. :)
What I don't think I need for my immediate survival is to find order in the proverbial universe. It's a philosophical question for me on which I can contemplate or take my time to deal with - while others provide me with the basics ;-)
The base for my survival is food and shelter and at least a minimum of human company. But only temporarily. The rest comes on top of it. Cultural integration, social meaning and so on - makes us human. Looking up in the skies and ask myself what live means, I find very different from looking up in the skies and appreciate the sheer space and momentum of this experience of the vastness and inexplicability of the universe.
It can become quite a trap to think about the meaning of live, for one can get lost in thoughts instead of simply living this life.
I can sit in a car and curse the traffic. I also can sit in the car and appreciate that it transports me from here to there. Both happens, both is reality.
Oh, I SEE. NOW it becomes more clear to me, what you are opposing. :) Some call this nihilism or give it other names, "post something". Of course, there is a truth. But the moment you want to formulate it, put it into language or written maximes or manifestations, you lose the very essence of what you would "truly" like to express. You know the moments of truths as much as I know them. They appear not in scientific papers, they appear in art and encounters with living beings and nature, if you ask me.
Maybe this anecdote reflects it better (telling it from memory):
Two monks sit silently on a mountain top. Suddenly one of them says: "Look at the majesty of the magnificent mountains, the beauty of the landscape, the grace of the flying eagle!" The other: "It's all true. I just wish you hadn't said anything."
I have not read yet the linked post. Maybe later. Thank you.
Had a good laugh with that:
enjoy :)
LOL!! Thanks for that: that was AWESOME ;-)
Very welcome.
HaHa!
Watch one of the full shows online. There is one he gave in Sweden, I guess. It's hilarious!