Longevity Escape Velocity By 2036?

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(Edited)

Aubrey de Grey is one of the leading researchers in the field of longevity. This was a field that was basically nothing about 15 years ago has seen a massive explosion of late. Leading the push is the technology billionaires who are pouring a ton of money into the research of human longevity.

Humanity has always had an interest in immortality. Throughout our historic writings, they are parables of people finding the fountain of youth. It is an obsession with us, something we have not achieved up to this point.

The last couple hundred years saw amazing advancements due to technology. This has extended into the arena of healthcare and medicine. Will this help us to achieve immortality?

Some researchers are not focused upon that. de Grey is not seeking to make humans immortal. Instead, his goal is to eliminate disease. The one that is at the top of his list is aging.

In his view, aging should be classified as a disease, something that we approach as treatable.

Because of this outlook, de Grey feels that things are going to be radically different within the next couple of decades.

Here is a tweet he sent out:

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This places a time frame and odds to what he sees for Longevity Escape Velocity.

What is Longevity Escape Velocity?

This is part of the life extension movement.

It is a hypothetical time when the life expectancy gains at a rate faster than the time passing. Most typically frame it in terms of a year. Thus, one will receive an increased life expectancy that grows as he or she ages.

This is an analogy to escape velocity, a term used in physics which deals with the gravitational force placed on a body.

Proponents of this concept believe that technology will keep advancing to the point where this is possible. The breakthroughs will continue at a rate that outpaces aging.

Ray Kurzweil is a long time advocate of this, believing we will achieve it around 2030.

de Grey's Prediction

It is important to note that de Grey's prediction amounts to basically a coin toss. He is not even saying that is when it will be, just there is a 50% chance that it will happen by that date.

Either way, for someone who is heading up fundamental research for disease eradication, it is a positive outlook.

This is something that is not receiving a great deal of attention. As we progress through this decade, and into the next, the idea of longevity could become a mainstream conversation.

We already are seeing the population around the world aging. Many of the developed countries are to the point where their population peaked and is on the way down. Japan, Germany, Italy, and, in a few years, China are in this category.

Keeping people alive longer is not necessarily a goal. Doing so only builds up the need for more nursing homes and healthcare aids. This is not what is sought.

To be able to keep people alive AND active longer, i.e. disease free, is the target. If this can be accomplished, many might sign up for it.

The question is whether it will become a reality or not? To many, it will happen, it is just a question of when. If de Grey is off by a decade, in the grand scheme, that means little. The impact will be the same on humanity.


Source

A topic like this could have enormous implications upon society. We are already seeing the impact of an aging population on society. This is causing enormous strain in many countries.

Naturally, this is happening under present conditions. While people are living longer, are they really living healthier and is their productive life years increasing? That is debatable. Sure we can help people get older but they spend the remaining years in assisted facilities, often under the influence of drugs.

We also see other questions arising. One of the biggest ones is whether those with wealth will live forever since they can afford the treatments while the rest of us are literally left to die.

This seems unlikely know the track of technology. At the start, the technology is indeed expensive appealing to only a small class of people. However, companies quickly run out of people to sell to since that pool is not wide. Also, each new generation of that technology becomes less expensive.

It is likely we see something similar here.

Another consideration is ethical. When dealing with therapies of the nature that de Grey is forecasting, what other implications are there. Can we tailor then to generate certain characteristics? If so, what is to stop "designer babies" once we have the technology for gene modification?

What will it mean for society in general? Will the power stay in charge forever? Does this mean despots, who will never die, will always terrorize their population?

Economic Implications

Japan is an example of what happens to a country when an aging population causes an imbalance.

Our present economic models depend upon people repopulating the country. Younger people are required fill the jobs that produce the goods and services. This is what allows society to function.

We also have the support structure. Employment means taxes are paid, generating revenue for governments. These are used to facilitate the care of the retirees. Since people require more social services as they age, the financial burden falls to the working class.

Growth also becomes very difficult. Japan is an economy that struggled as the population aged. This is a situation that will be mirrored in other developed nations over the years to come.

The idea of longevity creates more questions than it answers. While it might be terrific to get another few healthy decades before we die, it does present a lot of challenges to society.

What are your thoughts? Let us know in the comment section.


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Bang, I did it again... I just rehived your post!
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Does this mean despots, who will never die, will always terrorize their population?

This could go the other way. "If we don't do something, this will never end" is a powerful motivator.
Those just waiting for the old bastard to die, won't have that option any more.

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That could be very true.

We might see more revolutions are people see that they can either overthrow the tyrant or have 500 more years of misery.

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Consider too, that the more life expectancy is tied to money, the bigger the gap in remaining years between the wealthy despot and the people. He'd have a lot more to lose than them.

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That is definitely a conundrum on many different levels. Ethical, moral, racial, gender, religious, you name it, pretty much every "group" would be affected and come into play. The abuse could be catastrophic. The unintended consequences would be almost limitless. I am very hard-pressed to even envision a world where this is the case. Space exploration would obviously expand exponentially if people could basically travel for hundreds of years without aging. I don't know. Sounds like the subject of a very deep science fiction series. Are you going to take your talents to fiction? :-)

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Are you going to take your talents to fiction? :-)

The thing is that this might not be fiction. That is the point that I keep trying to drill into people. What was truly just the realm of Sci-Fi is now close to becoming reality (in a few decades). There is a lot of "far-out" stuff being explored. And keep in mind we really havent turned really advanced AI or quantum computers onto these matters yet. Wait until that happens.

Space exploration would obviously expand exponentially if people could basically travel for hundreds of years without aging

Many feel that space exploration will be eventually done digitally. We will not have to send our bodies out there. Instead we could launch AI that we are linked to.

As I said, far out is becoming not so far-fetched now.

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I read a really deep series from Tad Williams called "Otherland" or "Otherworld", can't remember which, that was all about VR taking over the world. Basically, there were underground "clubs" where people, kids mostly IIRC because they understood the tech, would go in and basically lose themselves for hours/days in virtual worlds. It was addictive and causing all sorts of problems in the "real" world. Super interesting. Not an easy read but the author really thought the ideas through. I remember it really made an impression on me. Probably been 20 years since I read it but it's one of the few series I've read that I still remember.

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My biggest question is how much do people need to solve for retirement if our lifespans keeps increasing? As it is right now, people retire around 60+ years and if lifespan is 120 years, they need enough funds to last 60 years. Besides that, one bad turn in the markets (if they don't always go up) will be tough and could possibly destroy years of savings. Honestly it seems like our economy is going to be in trouble and there will definitely need to be some changes.

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If you live to 120 - then you will can work till you are 80! I do understand your point - the equation changes when you are looking at a much longer drawn down period. Unless you are willing to live off earnings only, and not draw down your principal then there will be significant risk to outliving your resources.

If live expectancy continues to grow, there will have to be massive changes to SS and Medicare if you are in the US - there is no way to fund those expenses as the years push out.

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Yea it is going to be tough for anyone in the workforce since they don't know how much is enough in the future. If life expectancy keeps increasing, you have to save even more to make up for it.

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Does it matter? People are already underfunded for their retirement anyways.

The difference is that many would opt to work longer, if jobs are still available. Considering the path many believe we are on, with technology, jobs might be harder to come by.

What you raise is one of the legitimate questions. How does society handle all this. What about social safety nets and pension funds if people are living, on average, another 30 years? How can all that be handled.

Fortunately the cost of living is also going to plummet over the next few decades.

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the cost of living is also going to plummet over the next few decades

It will only do so when those at the top stop siphoning money off the poor. The government is acting as a cancer giving out small amounts of money that can't cover costs and stealing as much money for themselves and their donors.

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(Edited)

This guy gives me Theranos vibes. You should volunteer at a hospital when the whole covid madness ends just to see how vast is the field of medicine and how many types illnesses are affecting people. Preventing or getting rid of a few of them would be considered ground breaking. However: "never suffer from any age-related ill health at any age" is going far into Cloud cuckoo land . In the States you can't even prevent obesity for God's sake :)

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However: "never suffer from any age-related ill health at any age" is going far into Cloud cuckoo land .

Maybe but then most of what is around you was at one time in Cloud cuckoo land.

As for the approach to disease, this avenue of research is not playing whack-a-mole. It is going to the core of what leads to disease, the 7 different foundations that have been identified.

Either way, we can place friendly wagers on Cloud Cuckoo ideas if you want. How about $10,000 each? With all I put up, we are probably up to 4 or 5 by now.

Who do you think will clean the other's clock: the one better on technology or against it?

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Ever heard of multifactorial diseases? I wonder what core is to be found there if they have multiple causes that lead to them. And you still have to remember that Theranos was a multi billions dollar bussines that would revolutionize medicine.

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(Edited)

I'm a proponent of transhumanism, which putting an end to disease and degeneration is part of. But I'm not sure if eradicating pathology alone is sufficient to keep us physically young.

It seems that aging is brought about by increasing dysregulation in the normal biological processes caused by small errors adding up over time. The error correction mechanisms only go so far because they've been good enough from an evolutionary perspective. Women undergo menopause because grandmothers are vert valuable as spare mothers and support for their grandchildren but less valuable as mothers at an advanced age themselves. But when the grandchildren grow up, the grandparents themselves are not needed any longer which has resulted in no selection pressure for even greater longevity.

Frailty in old age is caused by growth and regeneration slowing down. The advantage of that is cancers becoming less aggressive and lethal. But the disadvantage of that is decrease in mental and physical capacity and slower healing from injuries. I read somewhere that mortality from cancer is at its greatest at the age of 65.

Defeating aging will require keeping up the regenerative capacity while keeping the increasing biochemical dysregulation across the board at bay. It's probably a more challenging task than defeating specific pathological processes.

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Yeah it is proving to be a difficult task. I think de Grey is a bit aggressive here although he does basically call it a coin toss.

In the end, we are still decades away from seeing these therapies really have an impact. There might be more relevance with the "digitization of humans" as opposed to the regenerating of the body.

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That's an interesting proposition. I think the digitization of humans will be a gradual process. Our minds will be augmented with computers.

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Many interesting questions, like if we know how, do we also know if we should, and what are the ramifications of doing so. Hmmm..

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Did we know the ramifications of the Internet when we got it started? Were we aware of all that could take place in terms of nefarious activities?

The answer is we never know until we embark upon a path. This is the unfortunate part of progress.

Look at how many plane crashes there were in the early days until we got it figured out to the point where it was one of the safest forms of travel (death per flight).

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True, just as every solution to a problem may create new problems...

...every journey into the unknown to find a better place, better water, soil or air may expose us to new forces both good and evil...

We just need to keep our eyes and ears open to watch for joy, wonder and calamity!

LOL!

Hopefully mostly the first two, and very little of the later!

:)

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Some isoteric knowledge says that life on earth is a kind of ordeal, after which there is a chance to escape from the chain of reincarnations. If one live according to this principle, physiological dying is commensurate with getting rid of suffering. Why delay deliverance? I think there will many opponents of artificial lengthening of life expectancy.

Некоторые изотерические знания говорят, что жизнь на земле, это своеобразное испытания, после которой есть шанс вырваться с чреды реинкарнаций. Если жить по такому принципу – физиологическое умирание соразмеримо с избавлению от страданий. Зачем оттягивать избавления? Думаю найдется много противников искусственному удлинению продолжительности жизни.

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I think there will many opponents of artificial lengthening of life expectancy.

There were many who opposed many different things throughout history.

Do you prefer the horse and buggy or the automobile? There were many who opposed cars in the early days. There were also those who thought only birds should fly.

We also saw, at least in the states, opposition to stem cell research. In fact, as little as a couple decades ago, it was banned.

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:)

Do you prefer the horse and buggy or the automobile?

I am from those who prefer to walk, but drive by car :)

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It is undoubtedly a very interesting and at the same time complicated subject. As you mentioned, the ideal would be to increase people's lifespan but also to allow them to remain active and contribute to society, free of diseases.

One factor to take into account is the overpopulation that is already being observed in the world. What measures would be taken to avoid overpopulation.

This goes beyond just extending people's lives. Several things would have to be changed in the world and society to do this successfully.

Best regards!

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