RE: Hive Proposal Costs per Active User
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Ah makes more sense. Is there no way to pull accounts created and active? In a decentralized blockchain you would think those would be things on record? Of course I don't know enough about the core blockchain itself.
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Not really, we have over 2M accounts but ~8,000 actively posting. You could use posts, comments, votes, custom json, there are lots of things you can do, but it isn't an exact science. Top level posts is a good metric, but for example people like Smooth and Freedom don't post, Blocktrades and GTG rarely post but are very active.
Front ends can't really tell who is logged in as it is broadcasts.
In most ecosystems, those who participate are like 10% of the total users the rest are lurkers, but in our case I think that doesn't really hold true due to the rewards. There are certainly lurkers though, but it just can't be quantified. I think "votes" is less reliable as that is more likely going to be 2+ per real user and many voters are completely gone.
I think it is safe to say it is somewhere around 5,000-15,000, but no one really knows.
Autovotes makes it unreliable, as well.
As @themarkymark explained, its not cut and dry.
For example, I have a tool not currently available to the public till I find the time to register a domain, set up a webserver for it and publish it but what it does is look at your followers and tell you if they are active within a filtered time period you can choose and active means posted or voted on something - anything that can be seen in a block on the chain as them basically pressing a button.
I had to add a disclaimer to it that reads as follows:
"Keep in mind not all users post or vote, so they may be "alive" but not "active" on Hive."
Evident by users like myself, who didn't post in over 2 years, but I have an account, and sometimes came and just read things without taking any action at all. And posting things since I came back, has prompted contacts from many such dormant users citing they too have been merely lurking but not participating for lengthy periods ranging from months to years themselves.
Using your own profile as an example. your profile header on PeakD cites that you have 6636 followers watching your blog. That's a social media win if they're "real" followers.... for sure!
BUT
If I put your name into my tool, it looks like this:
so first we see that my tool gets a different number by checking the followers on your account via a different RPC node than PeakD uses. Little differences like this can be confusing and it is not entirely clear why they exist anyway, other than things like node sync timing and the code they use to make their numbers available and how, but they do.
Second we see that the number of these followers who filter out as having posted within the last month is only 538 of the 6K+ total.
And if I change the filter to "voted" - on a post or comment (child post) then it changes even more to 889 active within a month. More people voted than posted, which probably makes sense. Some people never write, they only read and curate. And I don't account specifically for bots versus humans and voting trail accounts and stuff that do count as followers.
So not only is it an imprecise science, I can certainly assure you there are MANY users that could be considered 'valid' accounts that are just away, taking a break, or not posting or not voting or both. But they count as being part of the ecosystem. Such prominent names are even all sizes of wallets, ranging from someone like me who left for a while, and left an empty wallet but came back and got re-engaged, or big names like CrimsonClad who is clearly part of the system but didn't post for a year or TimCliff who is a stalwart OG but barely interacts with any frequency and so on. Or ranchorelaxo/haejin, a whale not seen in years but who suddenly surprised us by dropping big votes on one of Enginewitty's posts about our new witness coming online a couple days ago after being silent for a very long time. I'd have assumed him gone and many others as well, till they weren't...
So yeah, I tried to run @themarkymarks 14K followers but my site isn't setup for pagination on the results and it broke because the http payload of his followers data was too damn big :D I'll fix that later before I publish the tool for the public one day soon!
I hope this helps. Because my tool is just a reference, it cannot tell you the truth, because the chain can't handle the truth - in any succinct, certain infallible way anyhow. Too many variables in what defines a "user".
Defining an "active" user on Hive is akin to asking someone to answer "What is the number of stars in the sky". Do they count if we can't see them but they are there? I think they do.
Now this is cool and helpful and yeah I figured all of those were no real followers lol. For me "active" would be if they performed any action that touched the blockchain in a months time. But a more accurate could be six month time frame as some might just be collecting rewarding once in a while. Now of course there are people with mutli accounts which is rather hard to filter out as well. I have a few myself mainly as votes for alt tokens like neoxian or spt splinterlands blog token simply because there's not an effective way to get max curation rewards on those alt tokens otherwise.
This does help a lot and thank you for putting this together sircork!
Right and multi-accounters I forgot to mention, but you nailed it. It's all the factors we're discussing, and all the vectors by which or how which people can interact -or not- with the chain that make this something of tilting at windmills. All we can do it get as close as a good solid guess, using available data to guide us.
The other part of my tool may be more useful, allowing you to scan who YOU follow, and take action to unfollow accounts with no activity since a certain amount of time. Do you really want to follow someone who hasn't appeared to vote or post anything to even be following in 6 months, or a year? I like "clean" contacts lists in my apps, so to me, removing the dead weight I follow would give me a sense of knowing the people I do follow are going to do something to be worth following them for.
Yeah, as a content creator (or former content creator(still undecided)) here, you can tell much of the following is dead. Can feel it.
Many show up to create content, not consume content. So if they fail or lose interest, you also lose a follower.
Something else worth noting, and I'm sure this is common. I subscribe to several Youtube channels. I don't watch them all every day. Of course there, they do okay, because majority showed up to consume content rather than creating it.
And I own a youtube channel and the converse is true as well. I have WAY more views than subscribers. True for every channel you watch. That's why they ALL, even Mr Beast, ask for subs and say things like "We know 90% of our viewers are not subscribed, please sub below blah blah blah" every single video.
And in the same breath the experts will tell you follower count/subscriber counts are useless vanity metrics because of this very same phenomena - consumers consume, they don't necessarily take action, or know they can or that they should or whatever. And why should they? Your content is there for them whether they sub or not. Subbing just shows some solidarity and support and makes things a little faster for them to return to, if they care to return.
So don't get too hung up on it, or the accuracy of it rather. Zero is a bad sign for your content, but the total is a useless sign. Proceed accordingly ;)
Even with a portion of the following missing, I still did okay in the engagement department. I like to respond to comments as well so maybe it's a good thing 5000 people didn't show up lol.
Consumer types don't know what they're missing here though! I think under one post I managed to hand out $23 in comment rewards with my own stake. And there might be one where I handed out even more. I forget but I know those youtube commentators don't earn a thing.
Rewarding is sooo rewarding, isn't it?
It is. (Provided it's sustainable.)
Feel free to test on my posts. Won't bother me a bit. For a good sustainability test, you should probably vote early, often and at full strength.
I'm here to help!
Within the first 24 hours is the new "early" voting time. Not sure if you knew that or not. Voting at full strength often would burn out my voting mana. I try to keep that above 90%.
I'm here to help, too!
I have upvoted your comment with my full power. Have my 2 cents worth.
I expect now, that you owe me. According to the "leadership" account posts I have read lately, that's how it works. Right guys? Guys?
Correction. You've upvoted my comment with roughly 70% of your full power. Maybe your slider is at 100%, but you're chewing through your mana, which lowers your vote value. You'll be fully charged in 2 days!
My vote right now is worth about a buck. A quick vote after that and it's no longer worth a buck. My numbers are just ballpark figures but once that mana is down to 90% my full 100% vote is worth about 90 cents.
A lot of people like to burn their mana. Then people wonder why the rewards are "low". Well their V8 is only running on four cylinders. That's why.
Being honest, I never gave a rats ass about rewards or earning or keeping real close track of my votes. I apply them liberally. I'm having fun on a social network.
Crim, Marky and I started the same week. My wallet is empty, Crims is solid and she gets payyyyed on any post she makes and marky well, hes just rich rich.
But id wager I have as much or more fun than them :D
Witty is the finance half of our @pollenation witness team. I'm a PR, social community sparker and software tools making and node/server managing guy.
I have fun as well. Also have a serious side. And sometimes I have fun taking things seriously. I've gone several months without even using the stake, on numerous occasions. I don't do the autovote thing and run away. But sometimes I have to be away.
And yeah apparently I'm "older" than you and them. So I suppose I'm just sitting here acting like an OG.
I defer to your wisdom, ancient one.
Let me add, yes I know how it works, I was being partially facetious in my last post. But despite teaching it daily to minnows for 3 years in PAL and on Waves monday night minnow school, and elsewhere and everywhere, it IS true that I still don't give a rats ass about managing my RC or thinking much about voting on anything and everything that amuses me.
RC wasn't a thing in the beginning and I have very mixed feelings about it's existence and always have.
Well, maybe an inexperienced member will stumble into this one day and save us all some time.
But they both knew... there would be no saved time.
lol
Have a good one, dude.
Enjoy the time zone appropriate remainder of your time zone accurate day!
STOP THE ABUSE ON HIVE
FAKE HIVE POLICE
HIVE IS DEAD
HIVE IS ONE BIG FARM
!LOL !WEED !MEME !GIF
https://hive.blog/hive-104387/@bpcvoter3/se19g2
Downvoted BY HIVE FARMERS
6 days ago in #life by slobberchops (81)$0.00
Reply 3
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[-]bpcvoter2 (-5)(1) 4 days ago · Will be hidden due to low rating
NO DOWNVOTES FOR MARKY MARK'S SELF VOTING !WEED
https://hive.blog/life/@slobberchops/re-gogreenbuddy-sdr1wb
https://www.publish0x.com/the-dark-side-of-hive
https://www.reddit.com/r/stoptheabuseonhive/
https://peakd.com/hive-164833/@bilpcoinbpc/you-have-all-witnessed-this-account-being-downvoted-to-a-negative-reputation-for-no-reason
SHAME ON YOU ALL SAD PEOPLE WHO SCAM LIE AND FARM HIVE AND HIVERS
[-]acidyo (82) 3 months ago
Haha at "I shouldn't make commercial" :D Maybe something to worry about when you have more youtube subscribers! Quite interesting content though, these things should get more subs on there and here.
$4.28
1 vote
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[-]gogreenbuddy (67) 3 months ago
Yeah thought that was funny too
$4.54
4 votes
gogreenbuddy: $4.47
acidyo: $0.06
holbein81: $0.01
koleso: -$0.00
https://hive.blog/life/@gogreenbuddy/i-had-to-give-up-on-my-gabion-fencing-too-much-work
@themarkymark @buildawhale @upmyvote @ipromote @gogreenbuddy @usainvote @punkteam @makerhacks @apeminingclub @leovoter @blockheadgamds @rollingbones farm @cwow2 @solominer @steevc @adm @abit @theycallmedan @dalz @abh12345
HE MAKES CURATION REWARDS WITH ALL HIS ALT ACCOUNTS BURNING TOKENS LIKE THIS DOES NOT TAKE OLD TOKENS IT MINTS NEW ONES AND BURNS THEM
https://hive.blog/hive-167922/@bilpcoinbpc/the-power
https://www.bilpcoin.com/hive-167922/@bilpcoinbpc/the-power
https://www.bilpcoin.com/hive-167922/@bpcvoter1/response-4-to-themarkymark-marcus-buildawhale-usainvote-ipomote-leovoter-gogreenbuddy-and-over-100-of-his-alt-accounts
Reply 2 to @eddiespino
Reply to @eddiespino
cwow stop the drink and drugs
Stop supporting the fake Hive police who do nothing but exploit Hive
Many people on Hive will never get to spend any of their Hive as it may become illegal in certain countries
https://peakd.com/hive-158694/@bilpcoinbpc/marks-dream
Zac the man with the scam plan
lol the Marky mark keeps dreaming
GET HELP STOP CRYING
WE CAN NOT HELP YOU
ARE YOU OK
Hello Marky, are you ok do you need help, are you facing mental health challenges?
It's crucial to seek help. Continual dishonesty can erode trust and your mental health. Downvotes do not have an impact on us, but our consistent sharing of accurate information is key to us.
Marky stop getting butt fucked LOL.
https://hive.blog/computers/@themarkymark/re-bpcvoter1-sfi1bm
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Love life, be happy
[-]themarkymark (80) yesterday (edited)
Farming? Show me where I am farming, I post like one post a month at this point, and all buildawhale is burned. As you say transactions don’t lie. And don't say curation rewards, I'd get those no matter what I vote on and if you expect I will be the only person on this blockchain to forfeit curation rewards, you are dumber than we know you are.
https://hive.blog/hive-167922/@bpcvoter1/seq7ok
https://www.bilpcoin.com/undefined/@bpcvoter1/response-3-to-themarkymark-marcus-buildawhale-usainvote-ipomote-leovoter-gogreenbuddy-and-over-100-of-his-alt-accounts
https://hive.blog/hive-193084/@bpcvoter1/response-2-to-themarkymark-marcus-buildawhale-usainvote-ipomote-leovoter-gogreenbuddy-and-over-100-of-his-alt-accounts
!LOL !WEED !GIF !MEME
https://hive.blog/hive-167922/@themarkymark/re-bpcvoter1-sepr9c
21 hours ago in LeoFinance by themarkymark (80)
https://hive.blog/hive-167922/@bpcvoter1/senppv
https://hive.blog/life/@anomadsoul/re-gogreenbuddy-seqf1p
https://hive.blog/hive-104387/@bpcvoter3/se19g2
Downvoted BY HIVE FARMERS
https://hive.blog/life/@slobberchops/re-gogreenbuddy-sdr1wb
https://hive.blog/hive-167922/@themarkymark/re-bpcvoter1-setz65
Response 4 to themarkymark marcus, buildawhale usainvote ipomote leovoter gogreenbuddy, and over 100 of his alt accounts
Reply 2 to @eddiespino
Reply to @eddiespino
cwow stop the drink and drugs
Can't you see the problems on Hive?
Hive dropping to $0.000
Posted using Bilpcoin
LOL
It seems like THEMARKYMARK is dealing with some personal drama and mental issues, which might be causing them to spam us and others with baby pics, GIFs, and questionable content he's been doing the same for years. The fun doesn't stop there, as this seems to be a recurring theme with multiple online personas. The real question is, do we want to trust these drama-magnets with our hard-earned funds or any significant influence on Hive?
On Hive a significant issue exists with automatic upvotes consistently rewarding the same individuals day in and day out
We want to address the issue of downvoting. It has caused pain to many people, and we want to make sure it doesn't happen again reply to @jacobtothe
On Hive a significant issue exists with automatic upvotes consistently rewarding the same individuals day in and day out
We hope that those who genuinely care about Hive will reconsider their actions, as continuing down this path could inadvertently harm innocent users who are unaware of these issues
lol the Marky mark keeps dreaming
Marks dream
https://www.publish0x.com/the-dark-side-of-hive/the-marky-mark-marcus-its-clear-youre-deeply-engaged-in-farm-xmjodol
Posted using Bilpcoin
https://www.bilpcoin.com/undefined/@bpcvoter1/lol-the-marky-mark-keeps-dreaming
themarkymark (80)in FreeCompliments • 2 days ago
No.
I downvote spammers, you are a spammer, you get no monies. It’s very simple.
In the meantime go get some help. You obviously have some issues going on.
2 days ago in FreeCompliments by themarkymark (80)$0.00
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[-]bpcvoter1 (-4)(1) yesterday · Will be hidden due to low rating
GET HELP
$0.00Reply Edit
[-]themarkymark (80) 4 hours ago
I have a personal chef, maid, and a captain for my yacht. What other help do I need?
$0.00Reply
https://hive.blog/hive-140084/@themarkymark/re-bpcvoter1-sg5l3x
@gogreenbuddy THIS MAN IS A TOP HIVE FARMER AND SCAMMER SOME OF HIS OTHER ACCOUNTS @THEMARKYMARK @BUILDAWHALE @USAINVOTE @UPMYVOTE @LEOVOTER @IPROMOTE @PUNKTEAM @STEMGEEKS AND 100s more
https://www.publish0x.com/the-dark-side-of-hive